1964 Superhawk Project

[G-Man]

Seadog

That's wonderful. Now if only you hadn't been so careful before and put things right, it would probably have been OK........ :-)

G

Well, it turns out that the Sachse wiring diagram IS mislabeled. See the picture, below. I switched the wires at the coils and it started with the slightest touch of the starter button. Carbs still need adjusting; the idle is way too high. Once I have that figured out and it's running well, I'll try reinstalling the Sachse sensor wiring through the stator again.

[LOUD MOUSE]

What he describes as a problem is exactly what they do and what they sound like with the firing from the coils reversed or the cams 180 off.
I wondered as you mentioned swap wires and not which ones so I asked.
As you may recall the feller the other day who saw the colors at the coils were wrong and was slightly confused. (wire diagram didn't agree with his bike)
I suggested he check the color location at the points and he found they were reversed also.
Runs fine with not problem.
In both cases we shared the same knowledge with members but in a sort of different way. ...........................lm

LM - It's easy for me to say yes after the event but I have found, over the years, that it's worth reversing things even if you are 'convinced' that they are correct.

A couple of weeks ago I helped a neighbour fix his diesel tractor which had just had a re-conditioned pump. Spent a load of time bleeding the system but nothing coming out of the injector lines. Eventually I set the run/stop control to 'stop' instead of 'run' and it started right up. He just has to remember now that the control works backwards. I still cannot fathom how they changed this around when they serviced the pump.

G

Are you recommending the wires from the controller to the coils G?. ........................lm

Hi Seadog

Great work as the guinea-pig on this.

I hate to suggest this because of your diligence and LM's expert help but have you tried just swapping the wires for the two cylinders?

In my experience, any electrical problem involving two wires needs at least three swaps to get the connection right......:-)

G

Got everything back together this afternoon and tried to start the bike. No go. Lots of backfiring through the left exhaust and popping through both carbs, but nothing. Reset the timing repeatedly with no effect. Checked all wiring. Ended up stripping the Sachse sensor wires out from between the stator windings. Perhaps interference is the culprit. I'll try starting it again tomorrow with the sensor wires exposed. I'm tired, but not beaten. If it fails to start again, I'll reconnect the points, then see how it goes. On the plus side, I can now install an exhaust system in under 5 minutes. :-)

[Seadog]

Thanks to both of you for your help. As usual, you both have something to teach me and any others that read this thread. My big mistake was accepting the Sachse wiring diagram as right without first reviewing the Honda diagram. That first led to my confusion about my existing coil wiring and that led to wiring it incorrectly for the Sachse unit. It's all on me. Thankfully, no harm was done.

I'm about to remove both carbs and strip them down. Something is not right. I suspect the float heights are wrong. My idle is high and I cannot adjust it with the air/fuel screws which can both be turned in to the stop without stalling the engine. Slide screws completely out. More later.

[G-Man]

LM - Yes! My recent comments were a little bit of Brit humor. I agree you got it spot-on. His backfiring just sounded to me like firing on the wrong stroke as you indicated.

G

What he describes as a problem is exactly what they do and what they sound like with the firing from the coils reversed or the cams 180 off.
I wondered as you mentioned swap wires and not which ones so I asked.
As you may recall the feller the other day who saw the colors at the coils were wrong and was slightly confused. (wire diagram didn't agree with his bike)
I suggested he check the color location at the points and he found they were reversed also.
Runs fine with not problem.
In both cases we shared the same knowledge with members but in a sort of different way. ...........................lm

LM - It's easy for me to say yes after the event but I have found, over the years, that it's worth reversing things even if you are 'convinced' that they are correct.

A couple of weeks ago I helped a neighbour fix his diesel tractor which had just had a re-conditioned pump. Spent a load of time bleeding the system but nothing coming out of the injector lines. Eventually I set the run/stop control to 'stop' instead of 'run' and it started right up. He just has to remember now that the control works backwards. I still cannot fathom how they changed this around when they serviced the pump.

G

Are you recommending the wires from the controller to the coils G?. ........................lm

Hi Seadog

Great work as the guinea-pig on this.

I hate to suggest this because of your diligence and LM's expert help but have you tried just swapping the wires for the two cylinders?

In my experience, any electrical problem involving two wires needs at least three swaps to get the connection right......:-)

G

Got everything back together this afternoon and tried to start the bike. No go. Lots of backfiring through the left exhaust and popping through both carbs, but nothing. Reset the timing repeatedly with no effect. Checked all wiring. Ended up stripping the Sachse sensor wires out from between the stator windings. Perhaps interference is the culprit. I'll try starting it again tomorrow with the sensor wires exposed. I'm tired, but not beaten. If it fails to start again, I'll reconnect the points, then see how it goes. On the plus side, I can now install an exhaust system in under 5 minutes. :-)

[LOUD MOUSE]

Check the cable adjusters at the top of the carbs.
I have all of mine screwed down to the bottom so the nut is flush to the cable end.. ...............lm

Thanks to both of you for your help. As usual, you both have something to teach me and any others that read this thread. My big mistake was accepting the Sachse wiring diagram as right without first reviewing the Honda diagram. That first led to my confusion about my existing coil wiring and that led to wiring it incorrectly for the Sachse unit. It's all on me. Thankfully, no harm was done.

I'm about to remove both carbs and strip them down. Something is not right. I suspect the float heights are wrong. My idle is high and I cannot adjust it with the air/fuel screws which can both be turned in to the stop without stalling the engine. Slide screws completely out. More later.

[Seadog]

Thanks, LM. Both carbs are off now, stripped and cleaned again. I'll be reassembling tomorrow, taking extra care with the float height. I've been reading all afternoon and evening trying to figure out why adjusting either air/fuel screws is not having any effect whatsoever. I shouldn't be able to turn them in completely to their stops and still have the engine running.

Check the cable adjusters at the top of the carbs.
I have all of mine screwed down to the bottom so the nut is flush to the cable end.. ...............lm

[LOUD MOUSE]

Have you looked at the top cable adjuster?
How do you set the float level?. ..............lm

Thanks, LM. Both carbs are off now, stripped and cleaned again. I'll be reassembling tomorrow, taking extra care with the float height. I've been reading all afternoon and evening trying to figure out why adjusting either air/fuel screws is not having any effect whatsoever. I shouldn't be able to turn them in completely to their stops and still have the engine running.

Check the cable adjusters at the top of the carbs.
I have all of mine screwed down to the bottom so the nut is flush to the cable end.. ...............lm