Oh oh, engine briefly seized on a road trip!

[LOUD MOUSE]

YA BE WASTING YA TIME WITH A BUNCH OF DATA WHICH I DON'T NEED AND FOR SURE WON'T WASTE MY TIME READING ANY OF IT.
I DID CHECK YOUR FIRST AND FOLLOWING REQUESTS FOR INFO AS TO THE BIKE YA ACQUIRED AND I SEE THAT YA ARE/WERE A NEOPHYTE/IGNORANT OF THE ENTIRE WORKINGS OF IT AND OTHERS HELPED.
NOW TAKE A NICE NAP AND ALLOW ME TO CHUCKLE AS YA CONTINUE TO IMPRESS ME WITH WHAT YA LIKE/THINK AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT.
OH!
WHICH WAY DID YA COME OUT?
HEAD FIRST OR FEET FIRST??????????????????
ENJOY SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. .............LM

would have been nice if you saved the old oil and sent it in for testing.

among things they will tell you are..

viscosity , non detergent oils can and will break down and thicken... so they will test to see if the oil was in spec or breaking down and out of spec.

metals... they will tell you how many parts per million of iron, brass, aluminum are in the oil.



This will tell you how much wear is happen in the engine and give you an ideal if something bad is starting to happen or already happened...

Then they also can test for presence of antifreeze, moisture and other contaminants including fuel getting into the oil. The amount of dirt and contaminants can help also determine oil change intervals for your style of riding or if your oil really works or if you have no frigging clue about what your talking about.

In the 60's we found out that certain 30 wt oils did not hold up and either foams like the mobil or locked up like your expierence.

One of my buddy had his bike lock up about 5 times, till we finally got him to come over from the dark side..

my advice... look at what all the manufactors run in the bikes today.. similar bikes,, air cooled, high rpm and wet clutches... see what they recommended in the later years just after our bikes were made..

""jaso rated motorcycle oils have 5 times more anti wear additive than a good detergent car oil.""
while a non- detergent 30 wt oil has ZERO additives... thats zero... guys...

if you do run 30wt oil, your running the cheapest base oil you can get with the worse results and specs... and if you do, please change your oil every 500 miles and your engine every 5000 miles..
The heavy paraffin chains break down under pressure... the light weight volitals evaporate off, and the ash settles out. So your left with very little friction barrier. This oil was perfect of engine that turn 600 rpms or less. yes, it was and is sewing machine oil and door hinge oil.. and a great creater of sludge.. yes the sluge was the left overs of the oil when heated. Modern group 3 and group 4 oils do not turn to sludge and stay in group and chacter. If filter properly extended oil changes are possible on extreame duty equipment. New tests for oil performance have been designed that did not exist in 1960 and any oil manufactored then would not met any of the wear tests, friction test or performance tests.

Sadly I am not making any of this up.

Please go read about the japanese motorcycle makes oil rates JASSO, the european ratings and of course the american api ratings.

read about each test and what is means. read about how oil is now correctly catorgized into which oils perform and what they can do.

I dont sell oil, but I do care about how long my equipment last.

so please go read and make up you own opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASO

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ber=931328

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5.82HRKC ... etail.aspx



As you see oil is not oil and there is a lot of talk about oil.

sadly as new stricter emission requirements have force the automotive makes to remove some additives so that they dont foul up the converters, the newest automotive oil is no onger the best oil for wear.. extreame additives can coat the catalytic converters and reduce their effectivness so they have cut back on some of the better anti wear additives.

so a pure motorcyle oil that is specially made just for motorcyles will now do better that the premium motor oils..

but remember that they are a specialty low production manufactor oil, so expect to pay more..

non-detergent 30 wt?? remember that was even before Dr DeBaky did the worlds first heart transplant,

before man went to the moon, radios still had tubes and fm radios were only offered on a few cars and turn signals were not required, 4 way flasher were not availible, and record players were standard, and 8track tape playes were just comming online

cars had to be tuned up every 10000 miles or sooner, most cars would not start in cold weather, radial tires were not availible, but we got nylon tires that would last 7000 to 10000 miles, oil was change every 3000 miles but you added a quart every 500 to 1000 miles. chrysler was experimenting with a motorola alternator. and ole yeah. gas was 19 cents a gallon, all cars leaked oil and engines lasted 60,000 if you were luckey and didnt throw a rod... any high rpm driving would take out an engine in weeks... and yes honda brought out a revolutionary machine that would turn more than 5000 rpms.... and ran it on oil that was the same oil run in a model t engine.

[sotxbill]

your not the motorcyle dealer that sold me the suzuki 250 x6 in 1969?? The only dealer in Kerrville at that time... I traded the old worn out 1964 ford fairlane convertable and cash for the mechanics lien bike.. Then I came back later and bought the ford back after you bitched about it??
Are you that guy, the one that got arrested for shop lifting at the store next door? I had to split that bike serveral times as it was bad at bending shift forks.. Are you that kerrville motorcycle guy??

and yes, I bought the 305 scambler up here in dallas for $800 and split the tranny and fixed it,thanks to this site and advice. No "repair manual" makes it tough and I'm in my motorcoach at an rv park. I had to take the engine home on weekend to San Antonio and repair it an bring it back on sunday. So yes, I'm the guy who thanks to this site, rebuilt the 305. It runs good I ride it while I'm stuck here on this special project. The mains are a bit worn at the needles so it start with no choke but its good otherwise. Clutch plates still are a bit sticky due to the bad oil breaking down over the years, so I may have to go back in and clean them some more. I current have 5 bikes and have owned 9 total. One I bought from a guy with a beard in Kerrville. Was that you?? I eventually got a parts book but it doesnt answer all the questions and its been 40 years since I had to split a bike.. I also have a tricked out 305 from Stillwell (clubman77 scrambler) as well, but its in really good shape and doesnt need splitting. I did put the upgraded charging system in that one with the electronic ignition from this site. I have 3 more cbs that I'm trying to restore as well, but they will have to wait. I worked on bikes in the early 60s, then worked in a machine shop during college before going into engineering.. so Yes, its been a while since I was in a honda tranny. And then during 37 years working for a company, I did the research on motor oils and addititives just before I retired in 2000 so my data is a bit dated but still pretty much correct. All of the sites I quoted are all up to date and verify that your oil advice is not even close to being correct. Your advice otherwise is generally very good. Why do you argue when the facts clearly state you wrong. Then you resort to personal attacks... Maybe you are the guy I bought the bike from in 69.. Did you get parole?? Any yes,, you dont care about motoroil per you own words. And I did have a nice nap today thank you very much. I have received many messages and emails reguarding this subject and all were thankful that they can now go read for themselves about "MA" rated motor oils that are made just for wet clutch bikes.

Have a good day, sport!!

YA BE WASTING YA TIME WITH A BUNCH OF DATA WHICH I DON'T NEED AND FOR SURE WON'T WASTE MY TIME READING ANY OF IT.
I DID CHECK YOUR FIRST AND FOLLOWING REQUESTS FOR INFO AS TO THE BIKE YA ACQUIRED AND I SEE THAT YA ARE/WERE A NEOPHYTE/IGNORANT OF THE ENTIRE WORKINGS OF IT AND OTHERS HELPED.
NOW TAKE A NICE NAP AND ALLOW ME TO CHUCKLE AS YA CONTINUE TO IMPRESS ME WITH WHAT YA LIKE/THINK AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT.
OH!
WHICH WAY DID YA COME OUT?
HEAD FIRST OR FEET FIRST??????????????????
ENJOY SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. .............LM

would have been nice if you saved the old oil and sent it in for testing.

among things they will tell you are..

viscosity , non detergent oils can and will break down and thicken... so they will test to see if the oil was in spec or breaking down and out of spec.

metals... they will tell you how many parts per million of iron, brass, aluminum are in the oil.



This will tell you how much wear is happen in the engine and give you an ideal if something bad is starting to happen or already happened...

Then they also can test for presence of antifreeze, moisture and other contaminants including fuel getting into the oil. The amount of dirt and contaminants can help also determine oil change intervals for your style of riding or if your oil really works or if you have no frigging clue about what your talking about.

In the 60's we found out that certain 30 wt oils did not hold up and either foams like the mobil or locked up like your expierence.

One of my buddy had his bike lock up about 5 times, till we finally got him to come over from the dark side..

my advice... look at what all the manufactors run in the bikes today.. similar bikes,, air cooled, high rpm and wet clutches... see what they recommended in the later years just after our bikes were made..

""jaso rated motorcycle oils have 5 times more anti wear additive than a good detergent car oil.""
while a non- detergent 30 wt oil has ZERO additives... thats zero... guys...

if you do run 30wt oil, your running the cheapest base oil you can get with the worse results and specs... and if you do, please change your oil every 500 miles and your engine every 5000 miles..
The heavy paraffin chains break down under pressure... the light weight volitals evaporate off, and the ash settles out. So your left with very little friction barrier. This oil was perfect of engine that turn 600 rpms or less. yes, it was and is sewing machine oil and door hinge oil.. and a great creater of sludge.. yes the sluge was the left overs of the oil when heated. Modern group 3 and group 4 oils do not turn to sludge and stay in group and chacter. If filter properly extended oil changes are possible on extreame duty equipment. New tests for oil performance have been designed that did not exist in 1960 and any oil manufactored then would not met any of the wear tests, friction test or performance tests.

Sadly I am not making any of this up.

Please go read about the japanese motorcycle makes oil rates JASSO, the european ratings and of course the american api ratings.

read about each test and what is means. read about how oil is now correctly catorgized into which oils perform and what they can do.

I dont sell oil, but I do care about how long my equipment last.

so please go read and make up you own opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASO

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ber=931328

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5.82HRKC ... etail.aspx



As you see oil is not oil and there is a lot of talk about oil.

sadly as new stricter emission requirements have force the automotive makes to remove some additives so that they dont foul up the converters, the newest automotive oil is no onger the best oil for wear.. extreame additives can coat the catalytic converters and reduce their effectivness so they have cut back on some of the better anti wear additives.

so a pure motorcyle oil that is specially made just for motorcyles will now do better that the premium motor oils..

but remember that they are a specialty low production manufactor oil, so expect to pay more..

non-detergent 30 wt?? remember that was even before Dr DeBaky did the worlds first heart transplant,

before man went to the moon, radios still had tubes and fm radios were only offered on a few cars and turn signals were not required, 4 way flasher were not availible, and record players were standard, and 8track tape playes were just comming online

cars had to be tuned up every 10000 miles or sooner, most cars would not start in cold weather, radial tires were not availible, but we got nylon tires that would last 7000 to 10000 miles, oil was change every 3000 miles but you added a quart every 500 to 1000 miles. chrysler was experimenting with a motorola alternator. and ole yeah. gas was 19 cents a gallon, all cars leaked oil and engines lasted 60,000 if you were luckey and didnt throw a rod... any high rpm driving would take out an engine in weeks... and yes honda brought out a revolutionary machine that would turn more than 5000 rpms.... and ran it on oil that was the same oil run in a model t engine.

[LOUD MOUSE]

For goodness sakes why don't ya come on over to Kerrville and lets get together on that bike and and others and share ideas and opinions.
Not ya first CB/CL HONDA I see.
I'm a real person who shares my knowledge and and parts with others.
Ya have to be close to my liking of the bikes and I'll give a bet that we can get along OK here or anywhere.
Your choice as I have had several fellers which have brought bikes and engines and we worked on them together and had a great time. .....lm

your not the motorcyle dealer that sold me the suzuki 250 x6 in 1969?? The only dealer in Kerrville at that time... I traded the old worn out 1964 ford fairlane convertable and cash for the mechanics lien bike.. Then I came back later and bought the ford back after you bitched about it??
Are you that guy, the one that got arrested for shop lifting at the store next door? I had to split that bike serveral times as it was bad at bending shift forks.. Are you that kerrville motorcycle guy??

and yes, I bought the 305 scambler up here in dallas for $800 and split the tranny and fixed it,thanks to this site and advice. No "repair manual" makes it tough and I'm in my motorcoach at an rv park. I had to take the engine home on weekend to San Antonio and repair it an bring it back on sunday. So yes, I'm the guy who thanks to this site, rebuilt the 305. It runs good I ride it while I'm stuck here on this special project. The mains are a bit worn at the needles so it start with no choke but its good otherwise. Clutch plates still are a bit sticky due to the bad oil breaking down over the years, so I may have to go back in and clean them some more. I current have 5 bikes and have owned 9 total. One I bought from a guy with a beard in Kerrville. Was that you?? I eventually got a parts book but it doesnt answer all the questions and its been 40 years since I had to split a bike.. I also have a tricked out 305 from Stillwell (clubman77 scrambler) as well, but its in really good shape and doesnt need splitting. I did put the upgraded charging system in that one with the electronic ignition from this site. I have 3 more cbs that I'm trying to restore as well, but they will have to wait. I worked on bikes in the early 60s, then worked in a machine shop during college before going into engineering.. so Yes, its been a while since I was in a honda tranny. And then during 37 years working for a company, I did the research on motor oils and addititives just before I retired in 2000 so my data is a bit dated but still pretty much correct. All of the sites I quoted are all up to date and verify that your oil advice is not even close to being correct. Your advice otherwise is generally very good. Why do you argue when the facts clearly state you wrong. Then you resort to personal attacks... Maybe you are the guy I bought the bike from in 69.. Did you get parole?? Any yes,, you dont care about motoroil per you own words. And I did have a nice nap today thank you very much. I have received many messages and emails reguarding this subject and all were thankful that they can now go read for themselves about "MA" rated motor oils that are made just for wet clutch bikes.

Have a good day, sport!!

YA BE WASTING YA TIME WITH A BUNCH OF DATA WHICH I DON'T NEED AND FOR SURE WON'T WASTE MY TIME READING ANY OF IT.
I DID CHECK YOUR FIRST AND FOLLOWING REQUESTS FOR INFO AS TO THE BIKE YA ACQUIRED AND I SEE THAT YA ARE/WERE A NEOPHYTE/IGNORANT OF THE ENTIRE WORKINGS OF IT AND OTHERS HELPED.
NOW TAKE A NICE NAP AND ALLOW ME TO CHUCKLE AS YA CONTINUE TO IMPRESS ME WITH WHAT YA LIKE/THINK AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT.
OH!
WHICH WAY DID YA COME OUT?
HEAD FIRST OR FEET FIRST??????????????????
ENJOY SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. .............LM

would have been nice if you saved the old oil and sent it in for testing.

among things they will tell you are..

viscosity , non detergent oils can and will break down and thicken... so they will test to see if the oil was in spec or breaking down and out of spec.

metals... they will tell you how many parts per million of iron, brass, aluminum are in the oil.



This will tell you how much wear is happen in the engine and give you an ideal if something bad is starting to happen or already happened...

Then they also can test for presence of antifreeze, moisture and other contaminants including fuel getting into the oil. The amount of dirt and contaminants can help also determine oil change intervals for your style of riding or if your oil really works or if you have no frigging clue about what your talking about.

In the 60's we found out that certain 30 wt oils did not hold up and either foams like the mobil or locked up like your expierence.

One of my buddy had his bike lock up about 5 times, till we finally got him to come over from the dark side..

my advice... look at what all the manufactors run in the bikes today.. similar bikes,, air cooled, high rpm and wet clutches... see what they recommended in the later years just after our bikes were made..

""jaso rated motorcycle oils have 5 times more anti wear additive than a good detergent car oil.""
while a non- detergent 30 wt oil has ZERO additives... thats zero... guys...

if you do run 30wt oil, your running the cheapest base oil you can get with the worse results and specs... and if you do, please change your oil every 500 miles and your engine every 5000 miles..
The heavy paraffin chains break down under pressure... the light weight volitals evaporate off, and the ash settles out. So your left with very little friction barrier. This oil was perfect of engine that turn 600 rpms or less. yes, it was and is sewing machine oil and door hinge oil.. and a great creater of sludge.. yes the sluge was the left overs of the oil when heated. Modern group 3 and group 4 oils do not turn to sludge and stay in group and chacter. If filter properly extended oil changes are possible on extreame duty equipment. New tests for oil performance have been designed that did not exist in 1960 and any oil manufactored then would not met any of the wear tests, friction test or performance tests.

Sadly I am not making any of this up.

Please go read about the japanese motorcycle makes oil rates JASSO, the european ratings and of course the american api ratings.

read about each test and what is means. read about how oil is now correctly catorgized into which oils perform and what they can do.

I dont sell oil, but I do care about how long my equipment last.

so please go read and make up you own opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASO

http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ber=931328

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5.82HRKC ... etail.aspx



As you see oil is not oil and there is a lot of talk about oil.

sadly as new stricter emission requirements have force the automotive makes to remove some additives so that they dont foul up the converters, the newest automotive oil is no onger the best oil for wear.. extreame additives can coat the catalytic converters and reduce their effectivness so they have cut back on some of the better anti wear additives.

so a pure motorcyle oil that is specially made just for motorcyles will now do better that the premium motor oils..

but remember that they are a specialty low production manufactor oil, so expect to pay more..

non-detergent 30 wt?? remember that was even before Dr DeBaky did the worlds first heart transplant,

before man went to the moon, radios still had tubes and fm radios were only offered on a few cars and turn signals were not required, 4 way flasher were not availible, and record players were standard, and 8track tape playes were just comming online

cars had to be tuned up every 10000 miles or sooner, most cars would not start in cold weather, radial tires were not availible, but we got nylon tires that would last 7000 to 10000 miles, oil was change every 3000 miles but you added a quart every 500 to 1000 miles. chrysler was experimenting with a motorola alternator. and ole yeah. gas was 19 cents a gallon, all cars leaked oil and engines lasted 60,000 if you were luckey and didnt throw a rod... any high rpm driving would take out an engine in weeks... and yes honda brought out a revolutionary machine that would turn more than 5000 rpms.... and ran it on oil that was the same oil run in a model t engine.

[jensen]

Hi fallingpines305,

Like I said, the oil discussion is a bit "loaded", it's a pitty, and it divides people, but these people have one thing in common, they all like these bikes (bare that in mind).

But it's not only on this forum, on several forums about old engines / motorcycles there are dsicusions like this.

I use full synthetic 10W50 from castrol and that's fine for me.
It gives protection above tempartures where minerals just start desintegrating.

When you find out that the piston is the reason for seizing there is a very good chance that it has something to do with a combination between temperature and oil film strength between piston and barrel.

Jensen

[fallingpines305]

Jenson,

Thanks for the added thoughts in regards to my particular engine problem.

In regards to oil threads, I don't often add my two cents to typical forum discussion, however I have been very active in motorcycling for most of my life and spent quite some time on various cycle forums, at least one for each of my different bikes. Typical to all forums, oil 'discussions' can be very polarizing and often entertaining because they tend to bring out the best (beast?) in some folks.

Back to piston/cylinder issues, I recall an oiling bypass upgrade (?) to the back of the cylinders, if anyone has any specific information to this, I would appreciate having it passed along.

Pat

[jensen]

Hi,

Well I learned a lot about the CB's on this forum. If Michel stoic, Loudmouse, esteve, davemoto soxtbill and many others weren't s putting so much time and effort in there reactions and subjects, at least I would not know as much as I'm now. But indeed sometimes discusions are a little over the top.

What about this bypass, If I recall correctly, John Duggen made such a bypass (the same guy who made a BMW K75 generator fit to a CB72). I don't knwo where it's description is, but it was before the forum exists, and I don't know if the mailinglist is captured (Michel stoic ?). At least, as far as I know, John Duggen sold his bike and is no longer an active member.

Anyway, my advice would be reboring according to spec and pistons (first buy the pistons), and than braking in with a mineral oil (like Bill silver describes). After that you put a modern oil in it and it won't happen again, exept when there's something very wrong with the engine in general.

Coul'd you show pictures of the surfaces of piston and cilinder surfaces, if that was the case afterall.

I have a yamaha RD350 (in the states it's called a RZ350) It was one of my very first bikes and they where prone to seize. In general two strokes where prone for seizing because of thermal strain on piston skirts (much higher than four strokes). I have pictures of the piston surfaces if you want you can compare.

Now, I use Castrol synthetic two stroke oil in my yamaha, and it didn't happen again since. Any good synthetic will do, but There's a Castrol station around the corner).

Jensen

[DCON]

the only oil ill use. even the most modern synthetics cant compare.
whale blubber baby! and when i cat get it. i club baby seals