Bike starts with one kick but not with the starter

FluteTears · Post by **FluteTears** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:18 am

I been having to kick start my bike and for the most part it will start in one kick but if I use the starter it won't run. I have spark when using the starter I have a new battery in it so should have good voltage. Sometimes if I just bump the starter it starts I am thinking a condenser problem it seems to me that its a voltage problem that when using the starter that I am not getting a hot spark any ideas?
This bike used to start using the starter.

Snakeoil · Post by **Snakeoil** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:38 am

First, I've never worked on a CB77, only CL. But, if I'm not mistaken, the starter motor has a clutch. If the clutch is slipping, that could be your problem.

With a fresh battery I would not expect the starter load to drag down the electrical system enough to cause a weak spark. But that was one of my first thoughts until I read that you have a fresh battery.

When you spin the engine with the plugs out to check for spark, there is reduced load on the starter motor. You might want to leave the plugs in and check for spark with a spare plug. This will confirm whether or not it is an electrical problem.

Condensor does not care about your starter. It is there to stop the points from arcing and to cause the primary to collapse faster for a better spark. It does not even know which way you are starting it. If it was bad, it would not start with either system.

regards,
Rob

OldStan · Post by **OldStan** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 am

You might check your battery ground connection, particularly to the frame. A poor connection can cause an excessive draw and drop your voltage.

FluteTears · Post by **FluteTears** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:40 pm

Ok update on what I have found.
Tested with plugs in and plug wires not connected new plug in left side hit starter have spark. Tested right side sometimes a spark. Tested with kick start spark both sides. However I did find that the bike has silicon none restive wires. First thing I am going to do after talking to LM is put in NGK resistive caps and solid copper wire and go from there. I still don't understand why I get a spark on both sides kick starting. Funny thing is I have ran the none resistive caps and silicone wires for abut 4 years with no problems. I still wonder about the coil and also noticed the green wire going to the positive and the black wire going to the negative Hmmm.

e3steve · Post by **e3steve** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:34 pm

As Stan states, it's likely to be volt-drop that's causing your issue here. But I'd say it'll be in the harness rather than in the battery cables or terminations. If it was the latter the starter would labour, and you've not mentioned that it does.

There's a defined, empirical equation which is used to calculate the volt-drop of copper. I shan't bore you with it now but, suffice to say, voltage drops over the length of a conductor and is defined by that conductor's cross-sectional area, length and temperature, along with the circuit's voltage combined with the current being consumed. We do not need to concern ourselves with the temp factor here.

Down to business: the coil(s) will work with the Low Tension wires switched around, but they will also under-perform; so that's the first thing you need to put right. Do that, then carry out your spark test experiment in the same manner as you've described.

You can prove the condenser by switching the green & yellow to the condenser assembly only (not the pair to the points!); see of the weak spark follows the condenser.

FluteTears · Post by **FluteTears** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:15 am

Ok I got the correct plug wires and the correct plug caps in Now the bike starts with the starter...
Woo Hoo!
Sometimes it just plan simple put the correct parts on and it works.
Now I am working with the idle it starts but runs to fast new cable and carb slide not sticking I plan on looking at the timing to make sure its not stuck in advance as bike heats up the idle drops down

e3steve · Post by **e3steve** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:06 am

FluteTears wrote:Ok I got the correct plug wires and the correct plug caps in Now the bike starts with the starter...
Woo Hoo!
Sometimes it just plan simple put the correct parts on and it works.
Now I am working with the idle it starts but runs to fast new cable and carb slide not sticking I plan on looking at the timing to make sure its not stuck in advance as bike heats up the idle drops down

First & foremost, my apologies for not realising that you're working on a CA; I read Rob's (Snakeoil's) response and thought you'd picked up a CB project as well as your bikes annotated in your forum signature.

In view of the now-clearer facts, please disregard my previous post's procedures. But, more importantly, you should still correct the polarity of your ignition coil's LT circuit -- see schematic drawings below.

As Ed would have explained, I'm sure, the High Tension circuit is of greater importance for a good & healthy Big Fat Spark, so close attention to the requirement for good copper HT cable is paramount, along with the plug cap as well, although the 10k-ohm resistance is purely to suppress stray Radio Frequency interference.

Great news that your starting problem is resolved!