Xing CA77

[conbs]

A while back I looked at a number of posts that dealt with X-ing transmissions. After looking at posts of ratios, etc. I thought it made sense for a CA. Since then there have been a couple of posts saying it is great for CB's and CL's but not for CA's.

I looked at my Owner's Manual and the ratios for a Dream are:

Low 3.39
2nd 1.88
3rd 1.38
Top 1.00

It seems to me that less space between 1st and 2nd and more between 3rd and 4th would make for a better riding experience and I understand that X-ing the transmission will do just that. I know part of this is personal taste and part of it is the terrain where a guy rides. Lots of mountains in Idaho, but I will mostly be riding in relatively flat areas. I have the transmission X-ed and the cases ready to go back together. Anybody have experience X-ing a CA? Anybody think it might be a good idea. Thanks for any comments pro or con.

[brewsky]

I think what we have here is a 5 speed transmission with a missing 2nd gear!

The first time I rode my Dream I thought I had skipped 2nd and went straight to 3rd!

At first, I wanted to X the gears bad, but was waiting till I needed to tear into the engine.

Now, I'm not so sure.

The Dream has less power than the CB or CL, and I find the need to use third to keep up to speed with traffic on steep or long grades quite often. I that case, the close ratio down to third makes it a good passing gear.

Low speed stop and go would definately benefit from the swap, but higher speeds, especially in hilly country, I'm not convinced would be any better.

Will be following your experience for sure.

[conbs]

Thanks Brewsky.

I agree that step to 2nd is a little tall. Honda must have known that and chose to make us all wind 'er up in first gear to enjoy the sound and the experience - every time.

I hope others will share their thoughts.

[teazer]

Brewski has a valid point. On a stock box there's a huge jump from 1 to 2 and 2-3-4 are not too bad. Xing them gives a more even set of jumps and on a dirt motor that's good. On the street or race track, it's not so good.

90% of the time I'm in 3-4 and 9% in 2nd and first is only to get off the line fast. Holeshot everytime....

[conbs]

Teazer, thanks for weighing in.

I am not a tranny guy, so thanks to both of you for your posts. But, I am not sure I understand the benefit of having a higher ratio "passing gear" in 3rd. To me it would seem that have a lower gear (from X-ing) would actually translate into more passing power (albeit at higher revs) in 3rd (with X-ing). Obviously I am missing something.

In addition, I am porting the head and putting a CL carb on it, which I understand will boost torque a good bit. Any body have an idea which way that cuts in this discussion.

Anybody ever Xed a CA before? I think we would all appreciate your comments about how it worked out.

[teazer]

I think that the point being made was that a higher third is closer to top and when you want to pass but top is too tall, dropping to that new third means not revving so hard. That was my interpretation of the ratio and comments.

It really comes down to how you ride and where you ride. If you do lots of miles in top or third, a higher third might be a better fit for your riding style.

If you cover a wide range of terrain and find the ratios just where you want them, then leave it alone.

If you ride a lot is relatively slow steep hills or tight curves and are down to second a lot, would a lower second or a higher second help you?

I have tried 2 seconds, two thirds, Dream top gear, X'd on the race track and they are all so wide as to be shall we say, sub optimal. But that's on a race track. I prefer the low first to get off the line combined with a reasonable spread 2-3-4 of a stock trans under most conditions.

Obviously a 5 or 6 speed is a better solution but they are not so cost effective.

[conbs]

Teazer, thanks so much for that post. It is very helpful.

This is all theoretical to me. I have never been on a race track, but I think I understand the idea that it pushes everything to the limit. That is, it will amplify the effects of the way everything works.

I also understand that the race track is way different than me riding an old, slower bike out on a pleasure cruise. But, even in my style of riding, I expect two things. 1. A lot of stop and go driving where less space between 1st and 2nd would seem to be a good thing. 2. Revving the motor farther into the power band for passing with an x-ed 3rd gear will help my slow, old bike get around the few vehicles I will be fast enough to pass.

I am not trying to debate this and I have not made up my mind yet. I am just getting ready to button up the cases and am trying to get it right so that I won't be splittting the case again, just to rearrange gears in the transmission.

Teazer, I want to make sure I understand one comment you made:

I have tried 2 seconds, two thirds, Dream top gear, X'd on the race track

First I assume you were not racing a Dream so the ratios were different. Was it a CL/CB that was sub optimal for racing when X-ed? Second, I am not sure I understnad what you mean by "2 seconds and two thirds". Does that mean you tried 2 different gear sets with different ratios for each? Is that something I should consider?

Thanks again for taking the time to post. Perhaps I am being thick skulled. I am just trying to understand this better and I simply don't have the experience that a lot of you guys have. And, the CPU in my noggin' is old and getting slower.

I have considered a 5-speed, but not the rare and expensive aftermarket offerings. There has been some discussion on this site about transmissions from other bikes (CB350?) that would drop right in. I even bought a couple of tranny's on ebay because they were cheap. Obviously, the chain being on the right side is an automatic issue, but, I thought I might be able to find gear sets to slide on the Dream shafts. The problem is the main and counter shafts of the 305 are closer than any other transmission I have found so other gear sets won't "drop in".

Thanks to all who post and I hope this discussion will help others.