bronze in filter

OldStan · Post by **OldStan** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:37 pm

Rebuild has over 2000 miles on it. I just changed the oil after 1000 miles and cleaned the filter. I found a sliver of bronze and some fine bronze in the filter, enough to make it obvious. I know there is a bushing in the output shaft, but not a lot of stress on that. I think the only other one is on the counter shaft, which I replaced with one from Classic Honda Restoration. Should that be wearing that noticeably? I haven't had any problems operationally with the transmission. What is an operational symptom of that bushing wearing out that I can watch for?

48lesco · Post by **48lesco** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:48 am

I'd say that center rib on the countershaft bushing is the prime suspect, and I don't think it should wear that quickly. If it is that, you'll have increased end play on the kicker shaft which you can check from the outside. There will also be increased end play inside on the countershaft and first gear which could lead to engagement issues, interference, etc. That bushing is an interesting case. There's two part numbers, a -253 and a -259. I've held both in my hands (if you can believe the part numbers on the open bags) and there's no difference except the color which leads me to believe there was a change in the metallurgy. I don't know what the aftermarket ones are made of. You can also install it backwards but my firm belief is that the chamfered end with the oil hole goes under first gear and I think that's consistent with the Bill Silver engine guide as well as local advice from LM. I'd put another 500 miles on and check it again, then if it ain't broke...
-48

OldStan · Post by **OldStan** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:48 pm

I'd say that center rib on the countershaft bushing is the prime suspect, and I don't think it should wear that quickly.

That was what I was thinking. If I remember correctly when I installed it I noticed that the rib was square cut, but on the bushings I've removed (I've taken several apart) that rib was tapered on one side, or what was left of it was . I wonder if it's wearing to a taper? Guess I'll find out eventually. As far as installation goes, there is a taper on the kick start shaft on the left side, so yes, the chamfered end needs to go under 1st gear. I took pains to make sure I installed it correctly.

I'll take the approach you suggest and check again later.

G-Man · Post by **G-Man** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:54 pm

The bush in the 1961 bikes was a little different. No oil hole, no oil groove, but a nice big chamfer. The first gear has a correspondingly large taper machined in it.

G

OldStan wrote:
I'd say that center rib on the countershaft bushing is the prime suspect, and I don't think it should wear that quickly.
That was what I was thinking. If I remember correctly when I installed it I noticed that the rib was square cut, but on the bushings I've removed (I've taken several apart) that rib was tapered on one side, or what was left of it was . I wonder if it's wearing to a taper? Guess I'll find out eventually. As far as installation goes, there is a taper on the kick start shaft on the left side, so yes, the chamfered end needs to go under 1st gear. I took pains to make sure I installed it correctly.

I'll take the approach you suggest and check again later.

OldStan · Post by **OldStan** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:50 pm

I've put 785 miles on it since the original post. I went on an AMCA Road Run in Yosemite, a lot of 3rd gear over several major mountain passes (over 9000 ft elevation) along with a few other smaller trips. Pulled the filter and this is what you see. I haven't noticed anything unusual in the operation of the transmission. I'll continue to monitor the situation.

LOUD MOUSE · Post by **LOUD MOUSE** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:21 pm

Have you removed some of the stuff and are sure it is brass?
A side knot is now we no longer have leaded gas the oil sure doesn't carry a lot of debris. ...............lm

OldStan wrote:I've put 785 miles on it since the original post. I went on an AMCA Road Run in Yosemite, a lot of 3rd gear over several major mountain passes (over 9000 ft elevation) along with a few other smaller trips. Pulled the filter and this is what you see. I haven't noticed anything unusual in the operation of the transmission. I'll continue to monitor the situation.

OldStan · Post by **OldStan** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:59 pm

I cleaned it out,seems to be brass, non-magnetic, all very fine stuff, nearly a paste. From the color not sure what else it could be.

Is it the lack of lead or the better additives that makes it cleaner burning?

LOUD MOUSE wrote:Have you removed some of the stuff and are sure it is brass?
A side knot is now we no longer have leaded gas the oil sure doesn't carry a lot of debris. ...............lm

OldStan wrote:I've put 785 miles on it since the original post. I went on an AMCA Road Run in Yosemite, a lot of 3rd gear over several major mountain passes (over 9000 ft elevation) along with a few other smaller trips. Pulled the filter and this is what you see. I haven't noticed anything unusual in the operation of the transmission. I'll continue to monitor the situation.