Still running rich-found the solution

[67305dream]

I believe blue smoke at startup says your getting oil into the cylander, Maybe past the valve stems.
Blue smoke means too much oil.
Black smoke means too much fuel.
Just a thought!

[britman]

I finally have a nice brown color on a set of plugs on my CL77 after a ride. I would like to take this opportunity to pass on some things I have learned during this progression from running rich to maybe a little too lean. (The left side plug is almost a little too white for my likening, but hopefully a warm day will finally come to complete the final dial in.) Some experts may not agree with with the following tidbits concerning this transformation, but this is what I have found that works for me during this trial and error period.

1. Bill Silver is right when it comes to float settings on carbs. The setting for 22mm carbs is 26.5. The settings for 26mm carbs is 22.5. A couple of posts here have listed the wrong settings for the CB and CL carbs which are 26mm. BYW, LM is dead on for this setting. I went to Harbor Freight and bought a gauge. If you set your float where the top of the float is barely visible above the main jet holder with the carb upside down it is dead on 22.5. In my opinion, the difference between the float settings on the 22 and 26mm carbs has been a major contributing factor to finally getting a bike that runs correctly.

2. Make sure you check the length of your fuel hoses. I truly believe I had mine cut too short causing too much fuel to dump into the carbs. After putting a more of an elbow in the line, the carbs didn't seem to flood as much.

3. I used an old trick that has worked on all of the British bike carbs I have owned over the years. I run the carb bases over a 220 grit piece of sandpaper on a level surface with a pane of glass as a base. You would be surprised how this leveling helps make a good secure bond when you bolt your carb on. (DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE NUTS.)

4. Do not be afraid to use the final notch on your needle to cure the richness. Right now I am in the top notch on both sides and that is with 120 mains. This may change during final dial in, but a safe bet is at least up one notch on a CL. (Again my humble opinion.)

5. NEEDLE JETS DO WEAR OUT. If you were like me and exhausted all means for richness, check these. Upon looking at one that I replaced under magnification, you can see the ob longed wear in the opening.

These are just some tips or observations I have found during my transition. Are they correct for every scenario. Probably not. I have found that these little Japanese carbs can really test your patience. I could probably go out right now and crank my CL without using the choke, but the plugs are light brown, there is no smoke and that is on motor with less than 50 miles after a re bore. I am still a HAPPY CAMPER.

[LOUD MOUSE]

I admit you have been quite busy with your carbs and as I just read your cures a phrase from long ago came to mind and it is. (1963)
"The carb problem is in direct proportion to the miss adjustment of the points".
I will say that your adjustments at this time are not the usual adjustment for the needle.
Oh Well.
Ride and have fun. .......lm

I finally have a nice brown color on a set of plugs on my CL77 after a ride. I would like to take this opportunity to pass on some things I have learned during this progression from running rich to maybe a little too lean. (The left side plug is almost a little too white for my likening, but hopefully a warm day will finally come to complete the final dial in.) Some experts may not agree with with the following tidbits concerning this transformation, but this is what I have found that works for me during this trial and error period.

1. Bill Silver is right when it comes to float settings on carbs. The setting for 22mm carbs is 26.5. The settings for 26mm carbs is 22.5. A couple of posts here have listed the wrong settings for the CB and CL carbs which are 26mm. BYW, LM is dead on for this setting. I went to Harbor Freight and bought a gauge. If you set your float where the top of the float is barely visible above the main jet holder with the carb upside down it is dead on 22.5. In my opinion, the difference between the float settings on the 22 and 26mm carbs has been a major contributing factor to finally getting a bike that runs correctly.

2. Make sure you check the length of your fuel hoses. I truly believe I had mine cut too short causing too much fuel to dump into the carbs. After putting a more of an elbow in the line, the carbs didn't seem to flood as much.

3. I used an old trick that has worked on all of the British bike carbs I have owned over the years. I run the carb bases over a 220 grit piece of sandpaper on a level surface with a pane of glass as a base. You would be surprised how this leveling helps make a good secure bond when you bolt your carb on. (DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE NUTS.)

4. Do not be afraid to use the final notch on your needle to cure the richness. Right now I am in the top notch on both sides and that is with 120 mains. This may change during final dial in, but a safe bet is at least up one notch on a CL. (Again my humble opinion.)

5. NEEDLE JETS DO WEAR OUT. If you were like me and exhausted all means for richness, check these. Upon looking at one that I replaced under magnification, you can see the ob longed wear in the opening.

These are just some tips or observations I have found during my transition. Are they correct for every scenario. Probably not. I have found that these little Japanese carbs can really test your patience. I could probably go out right now and crank my CL without using the choke, but the plugs are light brown, there is no smoke and that is on motor with less than 50 miles after a re bore. I am still a HAPPY CAMPER.

[britman]

I admit you have been quite busy with your carbs and as I just read your cures a phrase from long ago came to mind and it is. (1963)
"The carb problem is in direct proportion to the miss adjustment of the points".
I will say that your adjustments at this time are not the usual adjustment for the needle.
Oh Well.
Ride and have fun. .......lm

Ed,

I agree entirely. The EI system has been taken out of parts box and placed on the work bench. The old points and condenser system is going to stay put until the motor has been broke in completely. It has been checked and rechecked using your tuning techniques and is dead on, along with the valve lash. I am just happy to finally get in the ball park with the carbs. I am sure they still need some final adjustments after more road miles. (I believe the needle clips will stay at one groove above with some air screw playing.) I forgot to mention I also changed the slow jet from a 39 to a 38 and the idle greatly improved.

I only posted this long in depth thread as an aid to any others out there who have also been fighting a richness problem with the 26 mm carbs. As you can tell I am far from an expert and some of my cures or suggestions may be pure ass conjecture, but I finally got sandy brown plugs. BTW, one further point to anyone out there fighting this battle. Turning the air screw in increases richness, turning out leans the mixture. I have seen this info posted completely reversed on several forums. I am going to shut up now and go for a ride.